Tag: phantom troupe

One thing I am waiting for the most in hxh is spiders/kurapika/massacre resolution because I am not sure how to feel about some things regarding it. These are the questions that bug me: Do you think it is in character for Kurapika to forgive spiders? I mean not just letting go of grudge (bittersweat, cold relationship) but normal friendship. I would like to see their friendly interaction but then I am reminded of massacre.Would it be realistic if they had close friendship,not just with chrollo

I mean… I don’t expect that necessarily in canon, though I do think it’s quite likely they will have to become allies which couuuuld help Kurapika forgive them? I don’t think I really expect that in canon, though I do think he’ll absolutely let go of his grudge and like I said, quite possibly ally with Chrollo at some point, because Chrollo’s his shadow and to deal with his shadow Kurapika should reconcile/come to terms with it, not destroy it. There would have to kind of be the right circumstances imo for any kind of forgiveness (and by ‘right’ I mean ‘dire’ and also time).

An old brief analysis of Chrollo from reddit. Thought you might like it. I found it similar to your interpretation. It also analysis one his line: /r/HunterXHunter/comments/5b9h8v/the_phantom_troupe_and_cult_behaviour/d9n6rsr/

Interesting! There are some similarities, I suppose, but overall I’m very uncomfortable with several aspects in that post, and think it displays kinda a very weak understanding of a very real issue in cults. 

Which, well, is something I know firsthand. I grew up in a cult of sorts and I don’t really want to make that kind of comparison. 

Nobunaga’s attempts to get Killua and Gon to join are not remotely framed as threatening. Machi’s threat for Hisoka is also not the same as a cult member threatening another member for not following the rules. The PT doesn’t consider itself primarily philanthropic–they only occasionally do it. They know they’re murderers and thieves. Feitan even says it. “We’re thieves.” 

They aren’t brainwashed, I think that’s pretty clear, and that’s something that cults generally do–and cults also tend to reduce the idea of self-worth. I don’t think the PT does that–Chrollo has his issues with self-worth and definitely uses the PT as a crutch, but the idea behind cults is that it is very… predatory in seeking to erase self-worth to recruit. The PT is not doing this, and a lot of the things cited in this post are flat out taken out of context. 

Wanting to save Chrollo is not dependence on a leader–it’s wanting to save a friend, and that is how it’s framed. Devaluing outsiders–sure, but it’s just not quite the same speaking as someone with direct experience in this. The hitting thing is also framed as comedic. 

So yeah. I actually very much disagree with the post, though I do agree that Chrollo uses the group as a way to try and desperately define his own identity, because he’s got no sense of self outside of it. And there is antichrist imagery with Chrollo but… I’m just not comfortable with it.

That being said, thank you for the link! It was an interesting read, even if I ultimately disagreed with it (and don’t worry, I’m not triggered or upset). 

Is there any evidence in the story that Pakunoda or Machi wouldn’t like torturing children. I don’t get that vibe from them but if someone asked me why I don’t have anything to answer except that I feel like it

Well, they presumably did take part in the Kurta massacre, and there isn’t any direct evidence for them not liking it (though I do think there is evidence). Chrollo is actually the one who directly states he doesn’t enjoy killing people… But Pakunoda and Machi–but especially Paku–are noted to have empathy as a defining characteristic. Machi may actually be less empathetic and more tsundere, but it’s obvious she cares very deeply for Chrollo and Pakunoda and all the PT members.

Because of that, and because they seem to be more directly associated with Chrollo’s people-based side (along with Nobunaga, and opposed to Feitan, Phinks, and Shalnark who are more obviously associated with Chrollo’s ideological side) I think it’s reasonable to assume they don’t like, torture kids for a relaxing Friday night. That being said they still. Did that. And haven’t been shown exhibiting remorse, either.

So yeah.  It’s a conundrum that many characters in the series exhibit: characters like Alluka, Killua, Gon, Kurapika are all capable of truly beautiful moments, but they’re also capable of some really bad shit too. That being said, the Phantom Troupe (and Chrollo especially) are particularly a negative shadow of Kurapika, so that’s again a warning of what he could become (but I doubt he will). Kurapika, after all, chose a strategic advantage over saving a child (Prince Momoze) in the recent chapters, which disgusted Oito. I’m not equating Kurapika and Chrollo–clearly Kurapika still has a moral high ground and far more sympathetic reasons–but it’s an increasingly small one and he needs a wake-up call soon.

Do you have character analysis or any headcanons for phinks and feitan?

I think Feitan and Phinks are not immediately at risk of dying? Lol. That could be just my denial though, but they have decent development among the PT members. 

Feitan is a character I think in particular is built up for some kind of development, given that he is used to show the strength of the Troupe to Kalluto. He’s my favorite troupe member after Illumi, Chrollo, Kalluto, and Machi. His perspective is seemingly very along the lines of loyalty to an ideology no matter the cost, as is shown in how he wants to fight Kurapika at the risk of Chrollo’s death in Yorknew.

Phinks is similar to Feitan, but Phinks is more obviously emotional whereas Feitan is calculating, and therefore they balance each other out well kind of in the same way Leorio and Kurapika do where one is analytical and the other is more hot-headed. But he is also, like Feitan, more loyal to an ideology than a person when it comes to the Spiders. Like he won’t even help Feitan during his fight with Zazan because rules. 

Both Phinks and Feitan, though, do show some kind of sadness after Paku’s death, Phinks especially. So they’re not like care-less monsters; on the contrary, I do think they care deeply about the Troupe members, but they care specifically because they’re members of the Troupe, because they care about the Troupe and its purpose. That’s why they came into conflict with Nobunaga and Machi during the Yorknew debate, since they seem to care more about the individuals in the Troupe. 

Anyways. I hope they both get a bit more development before/if they die, especially if this whole ideology vs people issue is revisited. 

How come the geneiryodan were considered an outlier even in ryuuseigai?

Ah, so it’s kind of explained in chapter 378!

The Troupe does not acknowledge the power dynamics of society (a major theme of this arc), which makes them the wild cards this arc as much as Hisoka, imo. Even in Meteor City there appears to be some kind of power dynamic that the Troupe clearly has little to no regard for. I’m curious to see where this develops! 

About last chapter of hxh. Relationship between families is really weird and doesn’t make sense to me, who even thought of that. I know it was remarked on but still. Why would someone come up with such rules?

So this is going to be rambly because there’s clearly a motif that this is playing into but I’m not quite sure what it means so I’m going to throw some ideas out there and hope one sticks lol. I am very likely overthinking. 

I find it darkly hilarious, because it’s foiling the royal succession war. Despite royalty clearly considering themselves upper class (literally they’re on the upper decks), the mafia have rules for fighting just as the succession war has rules. One might even say that the mafia’s rules are perhaps… more moral than the succession war’s rules in which you literally have a baby fighting for her life.

The ironic thing is that the succession war limits the war to the first two decks and would deign to duck below… and we know Morena wants to kill the princes too so my guess is it’s going to come to them. 

Which this exchange clearly foreshadows as well:

The idea of class issues has come up more than once in HxH specifically in regards to the Phantom Troupe, which originated in a city where people are literally thrown away and where no records are kept and that some people don’t even think exists. Class, is, of course, a societal ideology.

Family and legacy is also a theme that seems to be present in this arc (the Zoldycks for one), and of course it’s also been present in Kurapika’s arc from the very beginning as he’s aiming to avenge his family. Kurapika’s nen abilities are also strengthened by rules stemming from his ideology of revenge. With dire consequences.

My guess is the point of all of this is to even the playing ground between the different classes (as we know they’re all going to mix eventually) which are really just society’s established rules, and also to show that rules about how to kill and who you can kill is stupid because you’re still killing. Like I doubt very much Morena or Tserriednich plan to stick to the rules, but if they did it wouldn’t matter.

Remember again what saved Chrollo the first time was Pakunoda breaking the rules/ideology of the Spiders, which kinda imply Chrollo ought to die.

Basically I’d say the point is that living people/families matter more than rules/ideologies in these particular situations, which is a lesson Kurapika needs to learn, and Chrollo as well (since the PT is a kind of makeshift family) unless he’s going to die (but we have Morena and Tserriednich as the antagonists this arc that I don’t see making it out alive). I might be wrong about exactly what’s going on with this rule thing, but it’s clearly a motif in this arc.

Most of my friends are saying the new chapter of hunter x hunter is a death flag to Phinks and Nobunaga :( but I don’t think so. I think the remaining founding members (Chrollo, Machi, Franklin, Feitan, Phinks, Nobunaga) along with the Zoldycks will survive (so only Shizuku and Bonolenov will die) … then again, the author planned to kill Machi at one poin but decided against it so I don’t really know. What do you think?

Ehhhh… I don’t know. I am with you that the original members, save Franklin, all have more development on their side, which increases their chances of survival. I do, however, think that going up against Morena is a Bad Idea, since she is clearly positioned as a Chrollo negative foil with the Biblical imagery (a crown of thorns really Morena) and her nen ability and group of followers is a dark foil of the Phantom Troupe. 

All that to say I do think and have been predicting Morena and her abilities are going to be behind the death of some PT members, or she might use her ability on them should one of her current minions die or be esteemed not good enough. Because Chrollo and Morena will surely meet/face off at some point, and motivation is needed there. 

I do think PT members are about to start dying. I still think Shizuku, Bonolenov, and Franklin, as the three with the least development, are still the most at risk. We will see. 

I was thinking about Kurta clan massacre today and what events could lead to it, about each spider’s reaction, etc. I thought what if it happened after losing member no.4 or no.8 or someone else and Chrollo desperate and bitter wanted to distract himself with some special treasure (or just make someone suffer), like scarlet eyes. Some of the members didn’t like the idea of such cruel genocide but they knew (or they thought so) that it would make him feel better so they swallowed little sympathy

they had and just rolled with it, since they were his friends. Pakunoda was one of them. In YN, she thinks that killing Chrollo will make Kurapika (who she knows is desprate and bitter) feel better and, since that’s what his friends want, why won’t they run away and allow Kurapika fulfil his desires, just like she and other members did several years ago, besides, Kurapika’s actions towards troupe are justified, troupe’s towards Kurtas weren’t. When Gon says “because we are his friends, we don’t

want him to kill” just for a minute a thought crosses her mind that maybe she and other members should have influenced each other differently or something like that. I really think Pakunoda wouldn’t be happy about massacre. I thought at first she was one of the most ruthless ones after she caused Squalla’s death but then I remembered he was actually a mafia member and troupe doesn’t like (maybe despise) mafia for justified reasons, so I don’t think she’s generally that cruel. I also don’t want

to sound like troupe apologist but I assume they were a newly found groupe back then, with only little blood on their hands (if any and if innocent at all) and, regardless of their past, I think some of them wouldn’t like causing a genocide in such a brutal way.

You don’t sound like an apologist! Seeking to understand is not the same as excusing–like no matter how good their reasons it’s still like not okay–and I’m with you in that I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the sheer brutality of the massacre and what we know of certain members’ personalities, especially Pakunoda. I really want to hear Chrollo’s perspective on it at some point. 

Your theory is entirely possible. It’s implied that Hisoka defeated #4 sometime after the massacre, but #8′s being killed by the Zoldycks before the massacre is possible. (Either way, the ties between Chrollo and the Zoldycks have a lot of potential given that Kalluto and now Illumi (though I am suspicious of him, sorry Illu) have joined the PT despite Silva saying to stay away from them, and I really think they should be explored more before Chrollo dies.)

It’s still something I struggle to imagine: Pakunoda torturing children, but apparently it happened. -__- 

Empathy was kind of a calling card of her character even if she could be ruthless as well, so it’s hard to fathom. I really like how this theory challenges Paku in remembering something different, which we already know is true because of the Uvogin requiem. It’s implied that Uvo would have wanted them to “go really crazy” and kill a bunch of people, so they did. 

Considering their requiem for Uvogin and how violent that was (which Feitan says is crazier than normal, as the Kurta massacre seems to have been), I can easily see #8′s death having fueled the massacre (which to me sounds even more brutal than the mafia attack). 

Part of me is also interested to see if revenge had anything to do with it given the theme of the cycle of revenge in Chrollo and Kurapika’s arcs and the weird message of Meteor City left behind, but we’ll see.