I just hope that y’all’s criticism doesn’t stop Ishida from writing again, I mean, after all the online harassment that he suffered, if I was in his shoes, I would never touch that kind of environment again

Honestly, Anon?

How. DARE. You. You are rude, and sending this was a really not a kind thing to do. What part of you thought it was a good idea to be like “I hope Ishida Sensei isn’t ever criticized, guess I better send a passive aggressive (aka a way to bully while still looking good) post to someone else telling them they’re awful for something they DIDN’T EVEN DO?” 

I have expressed absolutely nothing but GRATITUDE towards Ishida for his amazing work. 

I never will express anything but gratitude towards him. TG saved my life. I think the last arc was terribly written, but I separate the work from the person. I think Ishida one of the most talented writers I have ever had the privilege of reading, and I have nothing but complete love for the man. But I don’t have to blindly accept everything he puts out just because. I doubt he wants that since a major theme of TG was empathy and allowing for different opinions.

I am so SICK of this fandom equating things that should not be equated. I certainly have not nor would ever attack Ishida for my l=not liking the ending, call him a bad writer (good writers can produce less than quality work sometimes; it’s called being a human being). I love his work and want to see more of it, and will gladly purchase all the TG volumes. 

But since I’ve wanted to say this for months now let’s fucking go.

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I’ve been really frustrated with the way the TG fandom has been acting lately, in particular equating all critical analysis/meta with hate and saying anyone who did not like the TG ending or anyone who says it feels like Ishida rushed it is hating on him. That simply is not true, and people who say that betray an immature understanding of the words used and also a lack of understanding of literature and how the field of literature functions. Which I studied. I have a degree in it.

Critique and critical analysis are parts of fandom though they don’t have to be your part of fandom. You don’t like most metas? Don’t read! That’s totally fine! It’s fine to engage in fandom via memes or meta, shipping or fanart, fanfic or stanning or roleplay or whatever, and to not engage with the types of engagement you don’t like. It’s. All. Good. Take care of your mental health first. It’s also totally fine to unfollow if it’s really not good for you right now. Nothing wrong with that. 

That being said, it hurts to read vague posts lumping you in with antis and misogynists and haters just because you interpret things differently and don’t think a story is perfect. Critical analysis is not hate: it’s a legitimate way to analyze what a series means to you personally, and for every meta writer I know it’s a way for them to express their love for the series.

For some of us, character flaws mean a lot, so maybe we write about that and how the characters might overcome it, because that’s genuinely what we find the most meaningful part of a story to us. Like, do people really think meta writers devote hours and hours and hours of our time to rereading the text, pouring over panels to identify patterns, writing 10K word essays on how a character can overcome their flaws because we hate the story and want to shit on the character? Even when I wrote about how I think TG has bungled its themes, I wrote it because I love those themes (which are GOOD) and I love this story.

So part of critical analysis involves, well, critique. It’s why movie critics are a thing, TV show critics, book critics. Ishida is an amazing writer whom I respect immensely, but he is human and not a god, and it is not disrespectful to say that the story has flaws, nor to discuss those perceived flaws and how they affect one’s view of the text. What isn’t okay is ad hominem attacks on a writer just as it is not okay to ad hominem attack a blogger. The notion that one should be quiet and not critique work because it’s being written by someone else is baffling because that’s legitimately what literary/journalistic criticism is: critique of another person’s story. You don’t critique your own work; that’s called revising. It’s disrespectful to imply an author doesn’t expect critique; all writers expect it. Name calling on the other hand is wholly wrong, and anyone trashing Ishida or insulting him should stop immediately. But I’ve seen so many in the fandom conflating these two things (attacks and critique) and it’s really unfair and creates a strawman argument and rather than addressing the issue of hate simply addresses nothing at all.

A lot of the vaguing and occasionally actual bullying I’ve seen is coming from people who claim to have experienced the fandom being made an uncomfortable place for them before with hate and antis (this, for the record, is not singling out a particular subset of the fandom as I’ve seen it on multiple sides). And it probably has been, and antis for any ship or character are honestly horrible. But the way the same people treat meta writers makes me feel like it’s not about creating a more comfortable fandom, but rather creating a fandom where everyone agrees with them. Like, after the release of 177, people who have previously complained about dealing with antis posted literal hate directed at real people (people w/ a perspective I happen to share) over a fictional story/character. Just focus on what you like to do, be it meta and critique or fanfic or writing about how a character has impacted you and how much you love him, and let other people do what they want to do. That’s all fine. But actual attacks were a thing. 

What else am I supposed to conclude besides that the TG fandom doesn’t actually have a problem with bullying or with hate, but only has a problem when it’s directed at your particular likes?

Like legit one time I wrote a 1000 essay on how meaningful and beautiful I find Kaneki’s character with like, one mention of “selfish” in the context of “I can relate” and do you have any idea how much pushback I got from that, how people vagued for months about how I was ableist for one word used in a context of “I love him?” I’m a real person, not a fictional character. I cried. What do people want anyways? A 500 word disclaimer before every post that me saying x is selfish sometimes doesn’t mean I’m reducing a character to just being selfish? I don’t have time for that. No one does. I don’t know what else I can do.

If you relate to a character to the point where you cannot handle someone not loving every attribute of said fictional character and you start lashing out at realpeople over it because you feel personally attacked, you might need to take a step back. There’s also a difference between “I think this character is acting selfishly and needs to overcome it” or “I personally find this character unlikeable,” and “I want this character to die painfully.” The latter one is definitely hate and by all means complain about it being tagged or whatnot, but the former two are not–they are merely different opinions.

I’ve seen so many people saying for months now that popular meta writers discourage disagreement when there are no receipts to back that claim up. It is true that occasionally every single one of us gets passionate about something and requests that a certain topic (usually with real world triggers, like the death of kids, abuse in the case of the ongoing BNHA arc, etc.) not be debated on our blog, but like, every meta writer I know, whether I agree with them or not, knows that meta writing is literally founded in disagreement. Like for real. That’s how the field of literature and literary criticism (which is what meta is) works. Someone disagrees, or a thought is provoked by reading someone else’s essay (professional meta) and then they write their own. Ishida definitely knows literature, so I am sure he gets this. Every. Writer. Gets. This. 

So if you don’t like the meta content out there, create your own. That’s legit why I started writing TG meta: no one was making the points I thought of when it came to Mutsuki so I decided to post them. If you disagree with certain metas, instead of vaguing about the writers or speculating about how they treat their families over an opinion on a fictional character (yes, popular bloggers have done that), respond with a meta of your own outlining the textual evidence why your opinion is strong. I’d love to read it. Metas have really helped me enjoy the story more and find new perspectives from which to appreciate TG–even if I don’t agree! Literally one of my favorite metas theorized Mutsuki would die. Clearly I strongly disagreed with that but like, it was still a meta I really loved.

People also can’t post about how people who use one word once are ruining the fandom for them when they post similar things about characters whom they don’t like, or story choices they don’t like. People are allowed to do that to post salt about characters and story choices they dislike, by the way, but they can’t pretend they hate any version of salt and only want positivity when they clearly do not: they just hate salt that stems from a different opinion. Maybe some of us just wanted to enjoy the anime while knowing it wasn’t going to be great. All the salt about it wasn’t what I wanted to see as I just wanted to enjoy it, but again, I’m an adult who can read their opinion and not have it affect my own.

Responding to ideas is again, fine to do. What isn’t fine is making it personal with vague, yet still ad hominem, attacks. For months I’ve put up with people complaining on both twitter and tumblr about how meta writers are ruining their fandom experience and in those posts they’ve been making it personal, attacking my or my friends’ ability to read (I like… have a degree in literature), attacking my empathy, attacking my family relationships which they know nothing about, and saying I’m selfishly hurting people by saying X Character can be selfish. Do people have any idea how it felt to see people reblogging posts that actually called people who didn’t like certain recent chapters names? To see some of those posts get occasionally hundreds of reblogs?

There’s not a better way to say to me, “you aren’t welcome.” It makes it seem like the people accusing meta writers of just being bitter are simply focused on erasing any kind of disagreement even when it is polite. If the fandom wanted an echo chamber, this is how you create one.

TG’s Chiastic Structure and Final Arc Predictions

hamliet:

What’s a chiastic structure?

Glad
you asked. It’s a narrative structure used in a lot of epics (the Iliad and
Odyssey, Paradise Lost) and modern classics as well. Harry Potter and
Star Wars employ it, as do maaaany books of the Bible (no I didn’t take several  entire classes in chiastic structure when I was in college why do you ask; hi Professor B I
hope I’m making you proud rn). It basically refers to a paralleling
structure, wherein events or motifs parallel
other events and motifs, forming a chiasm if you were to chart it out. (It’s also
referred to as ring structure.)

Here’s my handy dandy chart for TG’s structure:

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I’m
using arcs as dividing points and this is reeeeeally simplified but I’m
going to discuss the motifs used in each arc and how they parallel each other. This is not to say the arcs only parallel each other in this
sense; for example the first six arcs of both TG and :re parallel each other really
eerily well, and of course the Fool’s Journey is a structure of its own, but I’m specifically describing the chiastic structure layout (which is also present) so I’m
sticking to that in this meta. Yes I switched the Cochlea and Clown Raids arcs because I think that works better (keep in mind arcs are broad frameworks I’m using, remove the arcs and the motifs used would all work together chiastically but for the sake of simplicity and also the fact that I simply don’t have time for that rn I’m using arcs).

Let’s start in the middle. The Torso
investigation Arc and the Auction Arc. Notably, these arcs are about the
Qs, and they’re about Sasaki struggling to fit in with his new “family”
and yet being perpetually reminded of his family back in Anteiku.
We
have Touka appearing to Kaneki at the end of the Torso investigation as the
Nutcracker investigation picks up, and we have Hinami appearing to save
him at the end of the Auction Arc.

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Both of these arcs tell Kaneki he
belongs in two worlds. With the Qs family and with ghouls, and that
humans and ghouls are not so easily separated into good and back, black and white. We see this when Saiko, the one who is ostensibly human, chooses to not save Kaneki from Takizawa, but Hinami on
the other hand chooses to save him (both Saiko & Hina are coded as
children of Kaneki).

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The Anteiku Raid and the Rose Arc.
Gee, look how the most tragic arcs in the mangas–the arcs in which we
see the most deaths (or fakeout deaths) of characters we love–parallel
each other and how Kaneki’s confronted with how badly he just wants to be loved the entire time. 

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They also represent Kaneki losing his sense of security--in
the Rose Arc when he gets his memories back and in the Anteiku Raid when
he loses his memories. Tsukiyama also wants to save Kaneki in both of
these arcs.

Keep reading

Reblogging because Ishida’s tweet is making me feel emotions. This is probably the meta I’m most proud of because my theorizing was actually not completely wrong this time: TG did indeed come full circle, as we’ve seen the past few chapters. :’‘‘)

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Do you believe Furuta liked Kijima? Kijima’s famous quote (“I don’t value my life. If I were as pretty as you, then maybe I would a little. But I don’t care how an ugly body like mine gets used”) got me thinking about how it mirrors Furuta, specifically how Furuta may not have felt disregard for life had he been loved like Kaneki. :o Both he and Kijima are lead to act the way they do and see the world as they do because of their fates. (this is probably a shallow understanding, sorry ;-;)

(same anon!) Additionally, Furuta and Kijima had something stolen from them: Furuta’s hope to live a normal life, and (this is a stretch) Kijima’s normal life in losing his squad/his appearance. They both then work to tear down those who had wronged them. Kijima dedicates his life to work as an investigator, even taking extreme measures to harming them. Furuta and V crush the Washuu household who bestowed upon them their cruel existence. (again, sorry if this is super shallow understanding ;;)

No worries! You don’t need to apologize at all! It’s also not shallow. It is absolutely likely the case that Kijima’s brutality rubbed off on Furuta. Like, compare him to the other Garden Kids like Hairu, who was partnered with Ui, a decent human being. Kijima would probably not have cared for anyone nor anything, not even himself, which er… does absolutely reflect with Furuta became.

Do I think Furuta liked Kijima? No. I don’t think so at all. I think Furuta hated most people, including himself. Kijima seemed to be similar, and they likely worked together decently but that didn’t mean they had any actual affection for each other. 😦 

Tokyo Ghoul’s Thematic Tightrope

TG has always walked the line between idealism and realism in an absolutely fascinating way, and it’s one of the main things I adore about this series. Both of these themes are explicitly explored through the characters of Furuta and Kaneki, and the reason people are not happy with what has been done with them is not because “I just hate Kaneki but Furuta’s an angel who deserved none of this,” (I LOVE Kaneki) it’s because the themes, depending on the person, may not have been satisfactorily addressed.

The series’ ending conclusion is that it tries to bring these two disparate pieces together in a way that was framed peculiarly, and because of that framing the message ultimately comes across as simplistic and, to some, confusing, because textually, it’s simply inaccurate to say Kaneki fought tragedy but Furuta did not. Instead of emphasizing individual responsibility and choices, the story seems to have emphasized choices made by others.

(It’s great that some find 177 optimistic, and this is not an attempt to convince people it’s not optimistic, but to explain that, even though we all agree Ishida was trying to send a hopeful message, many of us came away with the opposite message instead. It’s not correct to say that the message Ishida intended to say is the message he actually sent, nor is it correct to say that he did not send that message.)

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We all know that TG wants us to live. It’s the most powerful line of the series imo: live, even if it’s not stylish.

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That’s idealistic, and optimistic. Hence, the series sets up an expectation that it will deliver on this front. And in many ways it does just that. Even when things look hopeless, like when Mutsuki spirals, or when Urie frames out, or when Kaneki breaks into Dragon, these three characters are rescued by their loved ones, rescued from themselves. That’s beautiful.

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However, the framing around Kaneki’s case in particular troubles me. He was told he did not have long to live.

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We all wanted him to live, and the story granted it to us: he fixed his issue. Good. But fixing his life span came at
the cost of 100 kids’ lives: one hundred traumatized orphans who were experimented upon and legitimately called “100 Kaneki Kens” by the narrative, and the narrative has not explicitly acknowledged this. Which the story could have work… except it contradicts the
story’s earlier themes of having to truly grapple with the wrongs done
to children as the concept of wrongs done to kids has been reflected in just about
every characters’ arc, and even in the worldbuilding, starting from the Doves’ Emergence Arc.

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The story has always emphasized this theme as highly important and influential for Kaneki personally and for the other characters as well, so if it was emphasized so much, it sets up an expectation in the reader that this should be dealt with explicily rather than never expressly acknowledged. I actually think Kaneki eating the Oggai is a good narrative decision for his lowest point, even if I personally find it triggering. The fact that it wasn’t then acknowledged, however, makes this theme of choosing to protect kids kind of fall apart. It also again stresses the idea of making choices for other people about the value of certain lives over other lives. And yes, Kaneki did not have a choice once in that scenario, but again, that emphasizes the idea that the world doesn’t allow for choices.

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The story then also has Kaneki choose to kill Rize even though he does not want to (and it’s good that he doesn’t want to), but I don’t think anyone thinks that the way in which it was done was a good narrative decision. I actually haven’t seen anyone saying it was, lol. It would be one thing if he had not just been saved from the same exact situation, but he was. It would be one thing if he tried and then realized he could not. It would be one thing if Rize’s decision to stay at the Torii Gates was given more narrative emphasis rather than her commenting only on Kaneki’s decision, but it wasn’t.

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Keep pressing on no matter what is a fine message, but to press on at the
cost of kids’ lives and the life of a girl in the same circumstances he
was just saved on frames this theme in a very uncomfortable way. Especially since Kaneki’s major flaw is criticizing behavior in other people that he also exhibits (that’s what Shironeki was kind of about).

Additionally, it can be interpreted as sending an “ends justify the means” message which I personally
find morally reprehensible, and, well, there
are lots of implications to Kaneki having to kill 100 orphans and a
woman with little current choice that are deeply unsettling. While I
totally agree that Ishida did not mean to imply what that implies, it
doesn’t change the fact that some of us are going to be more troubled by
how problematic that is than others. Intentions to communicate something important do not necessarily matter if the communication becomes muddled and the receiver hears something other.

I personally
root for Kaneki against Furuta and always have, but the entire framing
of this scene left me with a deeply pessimistic message. Accept the
world, yes, do what you can, yes. But kill or be killed, rather than
asking why anyone needs to die at all? That struck me as contradictory for the rest of the series’ themes. It is true that you cannot save the world, nor can you change it: you can only change yourself. The problem is that the narrative places emphasis on this when it comes to Kaneki’s character, but not with other characters, and allows Kaneki idealism in ways that it does not allow others. Of course, he is the main character, but thinking of himself as the center of everything has always led to disaster for him within the story. And it is not actually Kaneki’s choices that saved him, speaking textually. 

It’s Touka’s. It’s Tsukiyama’s. It’s Hide’s. And it’s Furuta’s. They saved him.

I don’t think anyone would say Touka’s love for Kaneki is not idealistic. Most people would not wait three years and dig their husband out of a Dragon. I’m not saying this is bad in any way at all, mind you. I love Touken and think it’s beautiful, but I am saying it’s idealistic. And that’s good, but it sets certain expectations: namely, if Kaneki is on the receiving end of a lot of peoples’ idealistic forgiveness and belief that he can and will choose to make better decisions in the future (Hide, Tsukiyama, the Qs, etc. all share this perspective), it makes sense that we would expect him to then share this idealistic perspective with others, even if in they end they do not take it. But he does not. And this is actually not something new. He admitted to Takizawa he only cared about his loved ones (which is fine! But if you put yourself in a position where you are responsible for those people multiple times, as he has and as Ayato called him on, that’s less fine),

and he did not save Eto (the clowns presumably did) when he’d promised to: and she wasn’t trying to kill him then. She was lying there dying in front of him and had just saved Touka and everyone else and told him so. So it’s hard to see this Rize thing as growth when he’s done it before.

Again, this is where the rushing comes in: if Kaneki had offered this to Rize and she expressly rejected it, or if this was emphasized more in the Torii Gate scene, it could have worked, but it was truncated. To have the conclusion of “some people do need
to die” (which is Kaneki’s conclusion) told to us from Kaneki’s perspective rather than shown (especially when Rize’s issues tend to be about precisely not being allowed to share her perspective), and not explored when TG has a
habit of exploring its themes until Moon Hell, means that the themes ultimately come across as muddy. Is it Rize’s choice to die tragically? Or Kaneki’s to kill her? We’re supposed to see it as Rize’s most likely, but it simply isn’t clear, and to have it not clear when Kaneki is making a choice about someone else’s life is putting the onus on other people rather than on individual responsibility. 

Continuing along those lines, the story early on tells us that connection is important. Interactions are chemical reactions; people are forever changed by them. People like Yamori, Arima, Furuta, and Rize, who do not connect with people, die without redemption (Eto is an exception, for… some reason. I’d say this is an inconsistency). However, the story also shows us that connection is hard. That’s a realistic view of connection, in that Kaneki struggles to connect with people and has actually deliberately severed himself from connection multiple times: first with Anteiku, then with the Qs, etc. It’s always been framed as something sad, because he doesn’t believe he can be loved, and Kaneki’s struggles to maintain connection are realistic and for me, highly relatable. However, the way in which people respond to his struggles to connect is idealistic and indeed beautiful, but also creates a dissonance with its contrast. It is honestly hard for me to believe that literally not one person would have expressed frustration or sorrow over Kaneki becoming Dragon, rather than just sorrow for him. That is not realistic. It’s beautiful in its idealism, but contrasts in an awkward way with the realism of Kaneki’s own struggles. It again puts the onus on other people rather than on oneself, which doesn’t work if we’re supposed to be interpreting Kaneki’s choices as what makes the difference. Such idealism also doesn’t work with Kaneki’s ultimate “kill or be killed” conclusion with the rushed pacing and framing the latest chapter had.

The conclusion of “I need to kill the Oggai/Rize to save everyone I love” struggles thematically because it is this entire mindset that has run the cruel world TG inhabits. The CCG agents (not the Washuu) kills ghouls to save the people they love. Like, I think what makes TG so interesting is that we can all relate to the notion that if there were terrifying people who had to eat humans to live, the world would not respond with empathy. The ghouls kill humans to stay alive and keep their loved ones alive. Essentially? While ghouls and humans may now be working together, that basic philosophy has remained the same. Making choices for other people about the worth of their lives is how this Tokyo runs in TG.

A lot of people find that pretty pessimistic. You can interpret that as “well, we can’t change the world, but we can still find happiness”–except TG has always offered a solution: changing the world via empathy. Empathy, putting yourself in the place of another. It’s what Touka offers Mado as a solution in the Dove’s Emergence Arc, and then she kills Mado because again, it’s kill or be killed there.

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And yet the narrative does not let her off for this, because she deeply regrets it. So the scene in 177, without Rize being afforded a chance, suggests a cycle that is unbreakable, that the cage cannot be broken, and if you try to break it, you become a villain. The three characters who tried the hardest to break it are Furuta, Eto, Arima. That’s… an issue, especially when the story begins with this:

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The only character who has tried to break that cage, who tried for revolution, is Furuta. Claiming that Furuta wanted to make things worse and Kaneki only wanted
to make things better is a false ditchotomy. 
Kaneki only wanted a world that he could live in.

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This is the entire point
of Kaneki hiding in the 24th ward arc. He would have probably stayed in
the 24th ward forever if he could rather than actually confront the
others. He admits as much inside his head: he had no plan, no intention
of fixing the world for ghouls and human, he only wanted a world where
he could belong, where he was needed and therefore he only acted on what
was directly in front of him. Maybe that’s the point, maybe he was never supposed to be born for love and revolution, but then I think it’s odd that everyone reading it thought it was supposed to be about freeing ghouls… because the story did set up those expectations.

This is in comparison to Furuta who has spent his entire life trying to
break the system from within, who dedicated his whole life to one
plan. All of Furuta’s actions are making things worse with a purpose.
We see exactly why this is necessary because every single person within
the CCG is simply so accustomed to the cruel way things are that they
barely even react. Torturers like Kijima and Tokage run free
with no repercussions. Saiko has consent forms for a life-altering
surgery signed by her mother and not her. Mutsuki is given a knife, and
then turned into a living weapon when they show both a predisposition
for violence and also come from a horrifically abusive family. The
entirety of the CCG is built on compliance.
They literally needed to be pushed to that extreme in order to break
free. The Oggai are the CCG’s method of taking child soldiers. The Washuu which control everything were slaughtered by Furuta who then went
on to replace them, and show exactly everybody how the Washuu acted in
his personality as “Kichimura.” Dragon literally drags humans into a
conflict that ghouls have been living and born into their entire lives,
and humans have the privilege of just treating like it’s an urban
legend.

All of these are targeted strikes against the system.

Kaneki, on the other hand,  broke quinques and hoped for the
best.

Kaneki’s successes are all built explicitly on the back of Furuta’s work. If Furuta had not done
the dirty work Kaneki never would have even survived as king because
Furuta did all the dirty work for him. He never had to confront the CCG
because Furuta dismantled it for him from within. He never had to
destroy the Washuu because Furuta already took care of that and he did
it much better than both Marude and Hide.

Kaneki
wanted to talk to the Washuu. He had no plan.

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When Furuta was not
directly challenging him, the only thing Kaneki did was move to save
investigators. When Furuta was directly challenging him, he hid to the
24th ward and then slowly starved to death. When Kaneki was presented
with the exact same limited life span problem Furuta dealt with his
entire life, Kaneki didn’t fight tragedy. He distracted himself. Kaneki
only fixed his lifespan because of something Furuta did once again:
because Furuta provided him the Oggai to eat.

Furuta acts, Kaneki reacts. That’s been consistent throughout the entire narrative. The fact that the story suggests that acting is wrong in Furuta’s case (and it hella is! Nothing he does is excusable, but his motivations=dismantle the system so that no one has to suffer what he suffered) and that it’s right in Kaneki’s case (his motivations=protect his loved ones from suffering) is… well, the line between them is really thin. Not wanting to do something (like Kaneki has seldom ever wanted to hurt anybody) doesn’t change the fact that he has, in fact, hurt someone, and as Yoshimura says, “the act of taking a life is always evil.” To have the significant choice of Kaneki’s, the choice that’s supposed to exemplify him taking responsibility, being to kill someone who has no choice, is strange.

You have to accept the world and decided not to twist it yourself. In theory, I like these messages from Kaneki and Amon. In practice, the framing of the story with pushing aside other themes and Kaneki still committing an action the story has always described as wrong against someone experiencing the exact same thing he just went through, makes it hard. It’s a tightrope between just what the difference between Furuta and Kaneki actually is, and I personally can see why people buy this chapter as inspirational, and why people do not.

Huge runner-up list? Now I’m curious. Also: The Donut Porpoise prays for your soul, although you probably wish he didn’t. (No, I did not invent that silly nickname. I wish I had though.)

Hahahaha!

So, I’d add Noro to the Good Dads & say Hina’s dad might be on there. I also think Kaneki will be a good dad to Pleasure-chan and he’ll be the only Good Dad to live.

EDIT: I FORGOT KUROIWA he is a GOOD DAD. IM SORRY PAPA TOAD.

I’d say Yoshitoki, Houji, Mirumo, Arima, Arata, Kaneki to the Qs, & Urie’s dad fall in the middle and you could arrange them along shades of gray. They did the best they could (they at least tried, all of them) but their trying wasn’t exactly what their kids needed. Like Mirumo is a good dad to Shuu but did the same thing to Karren that Kaneki’s aunt did to him (and I’m sure she was a good mom to her kid) so… he’s a bad dad to his niece. Lol. Hirako’s on my Bad Dad list currently but I think he will grow to be a good dad to Yusa.

Mado Kureo is kind of the opposite of Kuzen, if you think about it. Kuzen is a good person in many ways, but a bad dad to Eto, Touka, & Ayato. Mado is a bad person in most ways, but a good dad who prioritized Akira over promotions, etc. The novel Void does a really great job of illustrating just how supportive he was of Akira.

hi!! do you think this will officially be the end of TG, or do you think Ishida has something else planned?

Hello hello!

I think this is the end of the story. I really, truly do. The story itself is indicating we came full circle. The chiastic structure is real. 

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As for me, I personally feel like this on TG… everyone knows I don’t like and felt hurt/even betrayed by the framing of the message thanks to the panel directly above, and I feel like its themes fell apart in the ending. I still feel this way. But that does not mean I don’t think the journey was worth it. TG really did save my life, and it introduced me to many wonderful friends (for real, some wonderful people even sent me a package after my father died, and everyone’s support over the past year–which has been one of the hardest of my life–means a hell of a lot. Internet can be good, and I am so grateful to Sensei for this story that brought a lot of beauty into my life). The story has been a really productive coping mechanism. 

Anyways, Kaneki sums up how I feel about TG in 176, melodramatic though it may seem (but since it literally saved my life at one point I don’t care how melodramatic it sounds):

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I am a bit confused about Kaneki’s whole ‘the world isn’t wrong, it just is’ line in this chapter. I suppose that it makes sense in his character-arc of accepting clear-eyedly both the good and bad of his life as well as his will to keep living, but I feel that it’s somewhat dissonant with :re’s greater narrative arc of characters realizing how wrong the world is and coming together to fix it? Do you think this is because of Ishida having to rush for the last 3 chapters? Or am I misreading it?

linkspooky:

For me it goes hand in hand with what Amon said earlier. 

And even much earlier here.

From the beginning, when both Amon and Kaneki said “The World was Wrong” neither of them actually had motivation to try to fix or reform the world itself by say removing the CCG, making the CCG less cruel, finding a permanent solution to the human and ghoul food problem. I mean Amon’s first solution killing every ghoul is not only impractical it was also just basically genocide. What they meant to say when they said “The World was Wrong” was that they wanted to blame their own personal suffering, but also the mistakes they made on the fact that the world is twisted to begin with, as if the world is some kind of conscious entity, some horrible cruel god that dictates their fates and makes them do what they do.

Eto even says as much too, what kind of cruel god would orchestrate a world like this? Who’s responsible for a world with so many problems? In the anime Kaneki practically says this word for word. 

When he repeats Amon’s line in the manga, he’s not staring at the world but rather the moon, the one that reflect’s the world’s shadow. When Amon himself gets a cover page in chapter 47, he finds himself by staring at the night sky, ie, the moon rather than the world.

So up until this point, when Kaneki and Amon are talking about the world, they are not talking about it in a philosophical way that society is genuinely flawed and as Camus believes in the Fall everybody is at fault for those flaws because they continue to perpetutate society, or even in a way that most of the revolutionaries in the story who see genuine flaws with the system and are trying to fix it through their actions do. 

It’s that Kaneki and Amon see the world as some kind of abstract entity of wrongness that forces them to do the bad things that they do, but also excuses him. Which is why Kaneki and Amon also never really cared that much about fixing the world when they claimed they did, it was always just about protecting the people who were close to them. They just didn’t want to lose people to the random cruelness of reality, this abstract entity that they termed as the world.

This is exactly what Touka calls out in 120, and much later what Rize does in the temple scene. “Who exactly were you fighting for? What exactly were you trying to accomplish? You don’t know do you, because you’re just fighting without seeing what’s in front of you. You’re fighting against some vague idea of the world you’ve termed as your enemy just because you’ve lost things.” 

When Kaneki looks at the world seriously though, when he’s no longer driven by believing the whole world is wrong he can actually finally look at his responsibilities and what he wants to accomplish. 

Both Amon and Kaneki it’s not really the end of their arcs, but rather the first steps. The same way that Shinji’s arc ends with not him finding the meaning to his existence, but realizing that there could possibly be a future where he’s happy the world doesn’t just exist in a constant state of misery even though he perceives it that way, and the episode ends itself with the planet revealing itself. 

Whereas beforehand Amon and Kaneki were projecting their own personal issues onto the world itself as an attempt to find meaning in their actions, and also escape blame, now having escaped that mechanism they can finally seriously take the first steps in actually wanting to reform the world for the right reasons and being able to accomplish the right things, rather than endlessly fighting against a vague non specific entity with no goal in mind that they’ve dubbed as “the world.” 

What do you think about that white line over black after Furuta says “I know it will?” It’s too crooked to be a flatline or a closed eyelid, but something about it just indicates ‘death’ to me.

Hey friend! Yeah, it’s an interesting artistic choice. I agree with you that it likely isn’t a flatline or a closed eyelid, but it does seem indicative of death somehow.

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What I like about it is that it trends loosely upwards, which I think somehow fits the scene before it, wherein Furuta remembers that he is human, that he is not a villain, and steps outside of that villain role and remembers what he wanted in a normal life. Even looking back on his childhood (Furuta looked like he was in the Torii Gate place where Rize and Kaneki used to be? But also it looks like it could be a memory of the Sunlit Garden) and knowing he never did become old, he says “It definitely will [be fun].” I saw that, plus the line trending upwards, as an expression of well, perhaps not everything is nihilistic, perhaps he was not just a villain, that there is humanity in him, and he clung to that in that moment and it lifted him up, somehow.

Edit: maybe it’s trending downwards, I can’t tell. 😛 My bad! But it’s still kind of peaceful and hopeful, imo.

I believe Ken will be free of his tragedy once he kills Rize because his tragic ghoul life started with her so killing her would end it. That’s just what I think.

dreamofcentipedes:

Well confronting her is certainly his
means of bringing the chaotic life she threw him into to a close, but he
doesn’t necessarily need to kill her. 

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Like both Kaneki and Furuta, Rize is looking for a life of normality, at least subconsciously. Like Shironeki she is controlled by the very tragedy she believes she is rebelling against, and like Furuta she succumbs to it further in aiming to master her tragedy by inflicting it on others. Both these characters became very isolated as a result, and it is the same for Rize.

The friendships Kaneki forged beforehand helped to bring him back from the brink. Furuta only forged a relationship with someone who had already adopted the same selfish attitude he would develop, so he had no such luck. Rize is an in-between case. At various times people who care about her have tried to bring her back into normality:

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However, she has always rejected them. So unlike Kaneki and like Furuta, she never sees any value to her life’s chaos, because she has not allowed it to forge for her any kind of lasting community or home.

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The compulsive need to be tied down by nothing whatsoever comes from her terror of being trapped, but it’s this same recklessness that has led to her being trapped in the worst way possible as an immobilised experiment. It symbolises how she was never really free despite all her struggling, because she was still trapped in her mind, always focused on the fear of her past. 

:re is about moving beyond one’s past, preventing the original series’ tragedy from repeating and moving beyond the parallel arc structure altogether (Kaneki does not die in 143). It is breaking the cycle of the Black Goat’s Egg where one is forced to repeat history, whether of their parents or their own. This could not be the case with Furuta because unlike Kaneki and Rize, he never even tried to fight against his fate. But this reason I think Kaneki has a good chance of getting through to Rize – many have already tried, so she just needs one last major push.

It’ll be a difficult one though. Rize has lived this way for a long while, and with Furuta and Kanou gone and Kaiko surely on the way out, she’ll see the opportunity for boundless freedom in her new form and threaten to consume all of Tokyo in the greatest binge-eating of all. 

Furuta’s death is likely to play a a part in communicating to her, as I believe she must have cared for him at least somewhat; and it is direct evidence that burying her grief by inflicting more tragedy like he did is just going to send her further down into the abyss.

Kaneki does not need to kill the chaotic element to return to normality; making it cease to be chaotic and normalising it works just as well, as he has the same attitude to death in 176. There’s still room for the wandering Rize to find a home too.

Is there any Christianity lore in the recent arcs of Tokyo Ghoul?

Yeah, there’s actually quite a bit! We’re in the Judgment tarot, which is a reference to the Final Judgment from Revelation, and Ishida’s definitely drawing from the imagery in Revelation and the theology around it, including mentioning the concept of the rapture which is associated with more modern end times theorists (I have a very derisive opinion on that theology but w/e):

Revelation tells several allegories involving Dragons, pregnant women with wings, etc. From Revelation 12:

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon,and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
   and the kingdom of our God,
   and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
   who accuses them before our God day and night,
   has been hurled down.
11 They triumphed over him
   by the blood of the Lamb
   and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
   as to shrink from death.
12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
   and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
   because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
   because he knows that his time is short.”

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

Anyways I think we can say that it’s not like Ishida is basing this off of Revelation or following it in any way, but he’s definitely inspired by its imagery with Kaneki modeled after Michael as @sesshomarusoryuha wrote about, Touka as the pregnant women with two wings, a dragon loose, etc. 

And then we have Amon vs Donato which I wrote about here. Though that’s kind of a personal interpretation and not exactly what Ishida probably had in mind but the references are there so w/e.

We also have the title of the recent chapter, “Lord of the Bugs,” which is possibly a reference to Lord of the Flies, but it should be noted the title of Lord of the Flies is actually taken from the literal meaning of the name Beelzebub, which is sometimes associated with Canaanite pagan mythology and sometimes with a demon/the devil in Christianity.