I’ve addressed this throughout the week and I don’t really want to argue about it, but you’re entitled to your opinion that she did, and I’m entitled to my opinion that her addressing it was unsatisfactory.
The reason I feel this way is because the entire manga was emphasizes the serious psychological harm a parent abusing or abandoning their child can do–we see it in Mutsuki, Kaneki, Suzuya, Furuta, Eto, Arima, Urie, Touka, Ayato, Amon–literally almost every character. The conflict itself was emphasized as harming children like Hinami, an orphan, or Ayato, a child soldier, and these themes were further explored in other characters in :re. If your MC’s lowest point is eating children, for me to buy a satisfying redemption and him solving his issues, more than a passing “this is what was done to me, Rize” and “we’re both [general] murderers” would be needed. Why emphasize the wrongs done to kids if in the end it isn’t a special kind of wrong, as the entire manga before it suggests? To me it feels as if Ishida rushed and so that theme was dropped. But as I’ve said, it’s fine to disagree, and I don’t really want to discuss this further as it’s triggering for me.
Well, why was there help for Kaneki? Hope for Mutsuki? For Touka, or Ayato? There is really no difference; the Oggai are referred to as “100 Kaneki Kens.” And as someone who grew up in a cultlike atmosphere, yes. There’s hope. They’re only like, eleven. Children that young are really, really, really receptive to rehabilitation most of the time.
I personally view Fruit as more responsible, but Kaneki’s still the one who ultimately made that choice, and to have it not matter at all when the themes all suggest it would is something I cannot get over for the same reasons some people are triggered by what Furuta did to Rize.
Also, I’m really sorry, but I really don’t want to talk about this more. Not directed at you at all Anon!, but it’s kind of a dead horse I’ve beaten at this point. I have a whole tag for the Oggai on my blog.
My thoughts are that this final arc has all the right development, but it is coming across a bit rushed. Kaneki’s arc, especially Amon’s arc, etc. They got to the places I wanted them to get, but we were told more so than shown.
If you spend an entire manga building up the wrongs done to children as a major theme (because they’re not seen as mattering), and your protagonist in his lowest moment eats 100 traumatized orphans, maybe you should have your protagonist think on it or someone mention it just once. I don’t hate the Oggai development actually, though it icks me out, but I do hate how it’s been handled. I was looking forward to seeing how it would affect Kaneki’s development–I didn’t want him tormented, but I would like to have seen him just mention them and be like “it was terrible, and what’s done is done, and I will save the Sunlit Garden kids and make sure this never happens again.” I wanted to see him grow from that in a sense that wasn’t physical strength.
For Furuta, I wish this chapter had touched on the fact that since he’s dead now, he never had the option for a normal life. I do think we might get that with Rize next chapter. I also hope the Oggai get mentioned in one of the remaining chapters. That’s all I ask.
Hello lovely Anon; I hope you are having an otter-rific day!
So, here is why I think the manga condemns Kaneki for leaving the Qs. I don’t see “demonization” necessarily, if that makes sense, but rather just people wanting Kaneki to apologize and make things right. At least that’s where I stand. I want him to learn and grow from this.
Juuzou and Mucchy is complicated and I’m… frustrated with the pacing of this plot point lol! So the last time this was specifically brought up was when Urie wanted to talk to Suzuya about Mutsuki, didn’t, and all hell broke loose. And then the last time we specifically saw them interacting was when Suzuya saw Mutsuki go after Uta and was proud of him and thought him like Shinohara.
No, Suzuya, no. But he did not abandon Mutsuki; he just mis-mentored him like Sasaki was doing too. My guesssss is that this plot point will be resolved when Suzuya turning into a ghoul, which I do strongly believe is happening, hits the fan. Because I would love for Suzuya to realize that the reason he loves Shinohara is because Shinohara loved him, not because he was teaching Juuzou to be strong (though he was; he wasn’t perfect after all).
See, if Shinohara saw Juuzou turned into a ghoul, would he kill him? No. He would not. He loved Juuzou like a son. So this provides a good path for Juuzou to realize that a) Shinohara was a good man but not perfect (because if he wouldn’t kill Juuzou what was he doing killing ghouls at all?) enabling him to move past his father figure, and b) to move forward mentoring Mutsuki who does need mentorship.
Mutsuki and the Oggai is simply not coded the same way Kaneki mentoring the Qs was. There were 100 of them and one of Mutsuki, so it was not a family dynamic; hence why I would not say Mutsuki’s behavior warrants the same narrative effects as Kaneki ditching the Qs. Remember that in TG family dynamics, particularly the parental responsibility for a child, is extremely important as a theme, and that never came into the Mutsuki-Oggai dynamics, which we never really saw any of besides battles.
That being said, of course Mutsuki’s behavior with the Oggai was wrong. It’s a blind leading the blind situation; you can’t have a child raising children, a person breaking down from trauma guiding traumatized orphans. It could only ever be a disaster. Hence why Urie’s leading hte Qs was also Not Great. (And yes we should draw a parallel and be like uhhh maybe Kaneki should never have been mentoring the Qs, but the CCG again. That damn CCG.)
U think what kaneki did is gonna haunt him for the rest of his life him
being Happy to see his loved ones doesn’t mean that what happend didn’t
afect him At all , like John doe says killing is easy living with It is
the hard part I strongly belive that he is not proud of what he did ,why
should he? I don’t think is gonna be adress because the ccg members
never care in the first place they r still using KIDS as killing
Machines (poor yusa boy)
So I think the memories of the Oggai are, contrary to what tumblr likes to think, one of the pivotal moments that will drive Kaneki’s final development towards Judgment. I’ve also never said Kaneki shouldn’t be happy to see his loved ones or that he doesn’t care. Maybe others have but I haven’t. I do think he cares. I want that care to bear fruit and I believe it will.
Firstly, let’s address Tsukiyama. He grieves, but we’re deliberately told that we’re supposed to contrast him with Ui. Ui let his grief over his loved ones almost destroy him. Urie mentions Shirazu every 3 seconds. Kaneki thinks of his loved ones constantly, living and dead. Hirako is still all about Arima. But Tsukiyama doesn’t mention them at all and instead obsesses over Kaneki (not Kaneki’s fault). That does set off alarm bells. Of course I think the answer is to move on rather than be stuck in the past, but to move on remembering. My guess is that neither Ui nor Shuu’s response is something Ishida wants to endorse.
(I also think it is interesting that ghouls are the ones who move on because loss is what they know, but grief is a privilege for humans. So it’s a societal problem even more so than just a character flaw.)
That’s why it’s also… weird to me that neither Shio nor Rikai, nor the Oggai, have been mentioned at all. Yusa being in danger is directly confronting Hirako with the fact that those kids are dead. It’s not just the Oggai I want mentioned; it’s Shio and Rikai. It’s again breaking down the barriers and showing how ghoul and human is a stupid societal classification rather than a true species difference: this time the CCG ignores their deaths just like the ghouls have had to do.
I think the wrongs done to children need to be directly mentioned because while people would prefer to ignore it, it was a pivotal moment for Kaneki’s character development. It ties into all the themes of the series, ghoul vs human, the harms perpetuated onto children, etc. It’s not a blip we can ignore. It is one of the defining moments for Kaneki if not the defining moment that’s ramifications will be felt later in the story–which doesn’t mean Kaneki’s doomed or anything; he’s not, but it’s a pivotal part of his development. I am almost certain Furuta is going to try to use it against him if/when they confront each other one last time, and I also believe Kaneki is likely to encounter the Sunlit Garden in which he’ll have to grapple with that. I don’t want this to destroy him and I’m not saying BE MISERABLE EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE. I’m saying that I want to see him actually take responsibility for it like he said he would do, because we all know Furuta, with his love of psychological games, will not hesitate to confront him with that.
That’s a good point. I want Mutsuki to realize what they were when he realizes how badly Kaneki failed him. This isn’t Kaneki hate he loves the Qs but he did also abandoned them and children are hurt by abandonment no matter the reason. Then Mutsuki may realize that he failed the Oggai as a mentor in a highly significant way. But I still am not sure that offers a ton of new depth to his character–I think the Oggai will affect Kaneki and Amon most. I hope.
hamliet 