Tag: chrollo lucilfer

I just recently started watching HxH and im up to the episode where Chrollo meets the fortune telling girl. I’m very curious about Chrollo but I don’t have time to go any further in the series for a while becoz of irl responsibilities. So without spoiling anything could you tell me what sort of villain category Chrollo falls under? Am I gonna he perplexed by his morals and ideology or is it more like an Overhaul case where he’ll brutally use anyone for his goals including a little girl?

I don’t really know how to describe him… he’s not like a villain with a goal like say, Dabi, but he is a person in search of an identity. I think he’s a lot more compelling of an antagonist (not a full villain, he has redeeming traits like how much he loves his Troupe) than Overhaul is, though. Like, by a huge margin. 

This is a video that, while longer, excellently sums up the intrigue of Chrollo’s character. 

You mentioned you don’t like Chrollo-antichrist imagery. That got me thinking, I haven’t seen Monster but read discussion of its ending. Someone said they liked how Johan was portrayted in the end: he isn’t some evil mastermind, (like many would typically expect), he’s mentally ill. Do you think Togashi might be doing something similar with Chrollo and Hisoka’s (maybe Illumi’s) portayal too? Charismatic, stylish and baddass villains as troubled, damaged children who don’t want to grow up?

Oh, I didn’t mean to imply I didn’t like the imagery! I think it’s interesting, I was just hesitating about comparing it to a cult. 😛

I love Monster, and that’s kind of accurate, though it’s not exactly defining Johan as mentally ill, I’d say. It is showing a different perspective to a character who has been built up as an evil mastermind: that he’s a very broken child, and that there is good potential in him as well. 

As for whether that’s where Togashi will go with it… it’s hard to say. I think it’s clear that that is my ideal direction for it to go (that’s what I want), but we’ll see. I do think that since Hisoka is Gon’s shadow, Chrollo Kurapika’s, and Illumi Killua’s, I’m fairly confident that they won’t be killed by the protagonist in the end (whether or not they survive), but instead will reconcile with the traits the adult trio represent, as the shadow plotline tends to go. 

All of them are really childish in their mindset. Hisoka is a man child, Illumi is a childlike abuse victim fully apologetic of his abuse to the point where he’s abusing Killua and Alluka, and Chrollo is–well, the reddit post sums it up well. Illumi is especially likely to be acknowledged as a victim at some point in my mind–because he unquestionably is, canonically, and his motivation is kind of a desperate scrabbling for love and a complete inability to understand it–and that inability is from his shattered mindset as a result of his childhood. Chrollo as well we know some hints about his backstory–Meteor City and his broken sense of identity, wanting a family, so there’s set up for that, but Hisoka might be a bit harder since some of his appeal is his complete flippancy. We know nothing of his background and I don’t know that we will. But even without his background, I think that can be portrayed, and the fact that he’s currently spiraling is perhaps significant in that it could set up for a refutation of Hisoka’s life philosophy–which might show him as pitiable at some point.

But we’ll see; again, I (currently) expect all of these three to make it to the last arc whenever/if ever we get there, but HxH is like impossible to predict beyond that 😛  I trust Togashi to frame them well because he’s framed them really well so far, so whatever he does, I think it will fit. I do expect him to handle them, like he’s handled every single one of his characters so far, with empathy. 

The post isn’t what I meant actually. It’s the comments, chain starts from maniacmartial’s comment “This. I really wish it is expanded upon in the future, or at least..” It’s about Chrollo’s line, maybe it’s the key to understanding myself, in japanese and what it might imply.

I was thinking how to link directly to that comment and forgot to specify. I am sorry.

Ah, no, no, I’m so sorry!!! The link was acting weird so I finally just googled the name of the article to get to it. My mistake, sorry Anon! (Like I said, I did find the original post interesting to read, too.) 

And YEAHHHHH I love this! This is so eloquent!

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I completely agree haha. I think Chrollo–like Hisoka and Illumi–has a very childish mentality in a lot of ways, in that he does not want to actually consider teh responsibility of his life, so he relies too much on the concept of fate to excuse himself. I also definitely think he sees the Troupe as a family of sorts, and that’s an excellent point that he’s never alone. I think what Chrollo truly fears is, just like Kurapika, being alone. 

In chapter 337, Kite says to Koala that he’ll always be making up for what he had done. Does it mean he really should suffer every day or is it not so litteral? Do you think the idea of their whole conversation might apply to troupe, Illumi, Hisoka (if they get redemption)?

I don’t know whether or not it’s entirely literal. I don’t think so, but I think it does get the vital importance of connection that HxH seems to be trying to convey. Because she isn’t saying suffer so much as instead stay with me.

Kite’s worldview was framed as a bit dodgy in his human life, notably here:

The problem is, of course, a strong fellowship is what dooms the ants and also points out the flaws of the Hunters trying to exterminate them–because there was absolutely no need to do it. It was a futile effort that only brought hurt to both the Hunters and the ants.

At the same time, connection comes with pain. We see that in Killua and Gon’s relationship; as beautiful as it is, it’s also flawed like all relationships, and they suffer for caring about each other. Komugi dies because she connected with Meruem and chose to spend the rest of her life playing Gungi with him, because that connection (which her descriptions of her family tell us she didn’t really have elsewhere) was the most important thing in her life.

To suffer continually I think would be to repeat this cycle that Koala describes here:

The “I shot her to protect myself” I think gets at the heart of what is going on with Gon when he attacked Pitou, when Kurapika is seeking revenge on the Troupe and going after the eyes, when Illumi is trying to control Killua and Alluka, when Chrollo is stealing, when Hisoka is being Hisoka. It’s about them. They’re seeking to protect their own sense of worth. Gon in fighting, because his father taught him fighting=you can earn the right to meet me. Killua in protecting Gon=I have a purpose and something to do. Kurapika seeking to honor his heritage (where his worth comes from), Illumi in seeking to control the family that abused him, Hisoka in seeking near-death experiences and pleasure, Chrollo in trying to find out who he is (since he currently defines himself by the Spiders).

You can’t ever erase what you’ve done, especially if you’ve taken a life. Which at this point all our characters pretty much have except, like, Leorio. But I think for HxH, redemption is really just genuine connection. I’ve written a bit before about how redemption is different in different stories. Like Meruem and Pitou never showed remorse for the children they killed, but I think most people would consider them kind of redeemed–because they formed genuine connections. Pitou with Meruem, and Meruem with Komugi.

So, should there be any redemption for those characters, it would rely on their ability to make connections. Kurapika’s connections to his friend and to Oito and Woble are likely to save him from his spiral. Chrollo is connected to his troupe, but also equally attached to to his troupe’s ideology, which is why I expect him to choose at some point, and his choice will decide his fate. Illumi’s connection to his family is twisted and obsessive and objectifying in nature but he does have those connections, so it remains to be seen if he can learn how to not objectify his brothers (perhaps through realizing his parents have objectified him, if that were to happen, but that’s me guessing). Hisoka however does not have direct connections, and that’s kind of a calling card of his character… but he is, at this point, kind of connected to Illumi, so we’ll see how this plays out.

(I’m genuinely not worried about any of the narrative six characters dying until like, the very end of the series, and then I have no idea.)

Is there any evidence in the story that Pakunoda or Machi wouldn’t like torturing children. I don’t get that vibe from them but if someone asked me why I don’t have anything to answer except that I feel like it

Well, they presumably did take part in the Kurta massacre, and there isn’t any direct evidence for them not liking it (though I do think there is evidence). Chrollo is actually the one who directly states he doesn’t enjoy killing people… But Pakunoda and Machi–but especially Paku–are noted to have empathy as a defining characteristic. Machi may actually be less empathetic and more tsundere, but it’s obvious she cares very deeply for Chrollo and Pakunoda and all the PT members.

Because of that, and because they seem to be more directly associated with Chrollo’s people-based side (along with Nobunaga, and opposed to Feitan, Phinks, and Shalnark who are more obviously associated with Chrollo’s ideological side) I think it’s reasonable to assume they don’t like, torture kids for a relaxing Friday night. That being said they still. Did that. And haven’t been shown exhibiting remorse, either.

So yeah.  It’s a conundrum that many characters in the series exhibit: characters like Alluka, Killua, Gon, Kurapika are all capable of truly beautiful moments, but they’re also capable of some really bad shit too. That being said, the Phantom Troupe (and Chrollo especially) are particularly a negative shadow of Kurapika, so that’s again a warning of what he could become (but I doubt he will). Kurapika, after all, chose a strategic advantage over saving a child (Prince Momoze) in the recent chapters, which disgusted Oito. I’m not equating Kurapika and Chrollo–clearly Kurapika still has a moral high ground and far more sympathetic reasons–but it’s an increasingly small one and he needs a wake-up call soon.

You don’t have to answer this since it’s not really a question, but yeah I just remembered that during one of those events in shounen jump or something there was a JoJo drawn by other manga artists, in which Togashi drew a character from part 5. This explains some similarities between Yukako Yamagishi and Palm Siberia. And now Tserriednich has Diavolo’s stand ability. PS: if anyone asks you how Tserriednich’s ability works you can now officially say IT JUST WORKS.

unsightedjoker:

hamliet:

Oh cool!!!! That’s so neat. I think it’s cool how people are inspired by each other’s designs. 

I also am side-eyeing Tserreidnich’s ability since we know it’ll make him really hard for Kurapika & Oito to defeat… if only there were someone on board with a vested interest in knowing the future who could steal abilities and just lost his other future-based ability…

It would be really hard for Chrollo to steal the future vision considering his conditions in order to steal an ability but not impossible and it would be really  interesting and it fits with Chrollo.

But what I’m concerned and sort of worried is that if Chrollo doesn’t go against him and steals his ability and Kurapika has to take care him with his future vision intact or even if Chrollo goes against him in combat it’s gonna be tough, extremely tough.

I want to see Togashi’s take on this particular ability because the only reference i have on this kind of power is as I’ve said JoJo part 5. There in order to defeat part 5′s main villain Diavolo (the guy with future vision) was the main protagonist of the part obtaining a broken and extremely overpowered stand (stand’s are the supernatural powers that exist in JoJo) that literally made him the strongest stand user to ever live. As it is the method of obtaining a stand is more flexible and rather easy in comparison to obtaining or creating a new Nen ability (with the latter being more dificult as you have to train intensely to create an ability of your own) so this way of solving the problem cannot happen in HxH.

It’s intriguing to wait and see how Togashi uses this ability with Tserriednich and how will be defeated which let’s be honest will be tough and knowing Tserriednich he will use it the best he can. Can’t wait to see how it goes down.

Yeah, I’m with you. I’m excited to see how Togashi deals with this ability because so far no matter how powerful the ability–even with Nanika’s–he’s always managed to make it not just thematically/character-wise satisfying, but make it somehow believable too. 

I still do think there’s a significant chance of Kurapika & Chrollo being forced to work together this arc, but yeah, even if that happens things are not going to be easy. But considering the inevitable Kurapika-Tserriednich showdown is likely to be towards the end of this arc, there are a lot of unknowns still at play that could change things… Oito is a slow learner notably, but a foil for Tserriednich, so will she be able to develop any kind of hatsu in time that might just counter Tserriednich’s? Woble’s nen beast is also still a giant question mark that could quite possibly be a game-changer… I love this arc so much! sobs at the likely approaching hiatus

You don’t have to answer this since it’s not really a question, but yeah I just remembered that during one of those events in shounen jump or something there was a JoJo drawn by other manga artists, in which Togashi drew a character from part 5. This explains some similarities between Yukako Yamagishi and Palm Siberia. And now Tserriednich has Diavolo’s stand ability. PS: if anyone asks you how Tserriednich’s ability works you can now officially say IT JUST WORKS.

Oh cool!!!! That’s so neat. I think it’s cool how people are inspired by each other’s designs. 

I also am side-eyeing Tserreidnich’s ability since we know it’ll make him really hard for Kurapika & Oito to defeat… if only there were someone on board with a vested interest in knowing the future who could steal abilities and just lost his other future-based ability…

Hey I am the same anon! The childhood part might be an anime thing only. It was him running happily with something in his hands. Try to type Chrollo Childhood in google! You will get the image.

Ahhh I see! Thank you! 

I think the image is him playing with the troupe members around the dump of Meteor City, though–but with friends 😦 So it suggests a child without a home, at least to me (though that’s a bit of a headcanon). 

But the friends things is important I think because I’m pretty sure this arc will ask Chrollo to make the choice Paku made–choose your loved ones or your ideology. Chrollo deeply loves his friends and this shows that that has always been a part of his character.